People Over Politics

Michigan's Political Future: A Conversation with Ren Nushaj

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What happens when legal expertise meets state politics? In this revealing conversation, Michigan Senate District 9 candidate Ren Nushaj brings his unique perspective as a municipal attorney to tackle the complex challenges facing Michigan communities ahead of the 2026 election.

Ren's journey from Detroit roots to his current position as Clawson's City Attorney has given him an intimate understanding of both Oakland and Macomb counties—the very communities he hopes to represent. Drawing on his experience crafting municipal laws, he makes a compelling case for why Michigan's legislature needs more legal minds: "It's called legislature for a good reason. It starts with 'legis,' meaning law in Latin."

At the heart of our discussion lies a critical examination of how funding flows—or doesn't—between federal, state, and local governments. Rather than accepting the narrative of inevitable service cuts as federal funding dwindles, Ren advocates for a fighter's approach: "We have to fight for the things we believe in... because we deserve them, because our taxes pay for them." He provides a revealing analysis of how state-level decisions about revenue sharing have systematically undermined municipal services for decades, affecting citizens across all economic levels.

Perhaps most striking is Ren's passion for government transparency. While municipal governments must respond to Freedom of Information Act requests within five days, state government operates under no such requirement—a discrepancy he vows to address. "Democracy has to be in the daylight," he insists, connecting transparent governance directly to economic outcomes.

Through rapid-fire assessments of Michigan's critical issues—from education and infrastructure to healthcare and veterans' services—we gain insight into a candidate who believes government should be "a force for good" rather than minimized. His perspective challenges conventional political wisdom while offering practical solutions rooted in legal expertise and community service.

Join us for this thought-provoking conversation about Michigan's future, the role of government, and how legal experience might transform state politics. Subscribe now and be part of the discussion about putting people over politics in the Great Lakes State.

Jamie Flanagan: 0:00

I'm Jamie Flanagan and this is People Over Politics Looking ahead to the elections coming up in 2026. It's never too early to get started thinking about what's important to the people in the cities around Michigan, what's important to Michigan People Over Politics podcast, and we want to talk to Ren Nushai. Ren, thanks for taking a minute to sit down. Thank you so much for having me.

Ren Nushaj: 0:23

It's just such a pleasure and privilege to be here. So, ren, it's Michigan right.

Jamie Flanagan: 0:28

And we want to know about what you're going to do for Michigan, your plan what you want your dreams, your hopes. But before we get to that, I want to know about you, thank you. So tell me a little, tell me about your childhood, tell me so, are you a Michigan guy?

Ren Nushaj: 0:42

What's your background? I am a Michigan guy, in every meaning of the word, of course.

Jamie Flanagan: 0:48

I'll tell you why I'm Wolverine. I have to, because here's why.

Ren Nushaj: 0:53

My wife is a professor at the University of Michigan. If I were to say anything else, if for a second I uttered words to the contrary, I'd have to find another home, and we're not about to do that. Elections are coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah All right.

Jamie Flanagan: 1:07

So I did my undergrad at U of M. Yes, I got my master's at Wayne State and then my journalism endorsements at Michigan State. So, I got a lot of sweatshirts, yes. So, I spread the love around, but you have some affinity for U of M and Michigan in general.

Ren Nushaj: 1:25

But are you a native to Michigan? No, so I went to.

Jamie Flanagan: 1:27

Wayne to give you the series Wayne State University.

Ren Nushaj: 1:30

Warriors At the time. They weren't Warriors, of course.

Jamie Flanagan: 1:32

Tartans. They changed them a couple of times before they went to Warriors.

Ren Nushaj: 1:39

So I did Wayne State for undergrad, Wayne State for law school.

Jamie Flanagan: 1:42

Oh nice.

Ren Nushaj: 1:44

I finished my high school in Charleston, South Carolina. I've been here ever since, obviously.

Jamie Flanagan: 1:49

What is your political career? You're serving in the city of Clawson now. Well, I am yeah.

Ren Nushaj: 1:54

I am the city attorney for the city of Clawson. I do a lot more than that. Obviously, I have a private practice that takes me everywhere and anywhere and everywhere. But with respect to Klaus, I'm the city attorney and the prosecutor for them. So I do a lot of work for Klaus. Love Klaus, yeah.

Jamie Flanagan: 2:11

I love this region. I grew up in Detroit proper my wife and I both, you know seven Gratia, seven Van Dyke. We're Detroit kids from the get-go, but we live in Oakland County now. We never –'d talk to us in our 20s and we're like we're never living out that ways, but you know, now we do in like the oldest house in the the city, but uh, it it's we love oakland county and, uh, we enjoy.

Jamie Flanagan: 2:34

We love macomb county. Before we moved to oakland we both had houses in macomb. So you've lived my life, I've lived, I've done the same exact thing we love this region. So what exactly? What seat are you running for, what district and what seat?

Ren Nushaj: 2:52

So this is Senate District 9.

Ren Nushaj: 2:53

It encompasses a few cities it's Troy, rochester, rochester Hills and a portion of Oakland Township, and then on the Macomb side up until from Dequindre to Van Dyke and Sterling Heights up to Utica. It goes up and basically meets with Oakland Township going north. It's a lovely district. It's my community. I've lived here all my life. My folks live in Sterling Heights. I lived in Sterling Heights myself. I came of age in Sterling Heights and then, of course, my adult life I've gone back and forth between Sterling and Troy. I do all my shopping in Rochester Hills. Obviously I'm right on the border with Rochester Hills, so all our go-to places are in Rochester Hills. So this is our community, this is the seat I'm running for and I think we're going to do a lot of good for this community.

Jamie Flanagan: 3:41

For this district. So running for the Senate seat right, because the Senate is very responsible for the laws that rule the country. How important do you think your law background is going to be for what you're doing hopefully you'll be doing if you get?

Ren Nushaj: 3:58

elected. I think it's critical and I think that's one of the shortcomings that we have in the Senate currently and largely in our legislature overall. I think more's one of the shortcomings that we have in the Senate currently and largely in our legislature overall. I think more attorneys are needed. It's called legislature for a good reason, right, it starts with legis, meaning law in Latin. So to have a background as an attorney, it means that at the very least we won't make some of those silly mistakes that perhaps in the recent past we've been making and certainly the current occupant of the seat has been making. And I'll give you an example.

Ren Nushaj: 4:28

If you recall, if you know, we have a ballot initiative, a portion to our constitution which gives all the people of Michigan the ability to put forth ideas with respect to how they'd like to change the law. Right, and we vote on them and they become law with. Some years ago, the uh senate and the legislature overall took this position of, well, we're going to adapt and then amend. So they by law, by the constitution, they had to adapt any ballot initiative that the people of state of michigan voted for. But then they would go around and they say well, we adapted it, but now we're going to amend it in certain ways and for any attorney, for myself, for any other attorney we're all screaming bloody murder. That makes no sense. It doesn't make sense constitutionally it doesn't make sense and it's basic information that any attorney would possess. Apparently, it was basic information that was elusive to everyone serving in the Senate, and certainly the current occupant of Senate, district 9. This is just one of the ways.

Ren Nushaj: 5:28

I think that to have someone of a legal background, someone like myself, who has worked in a municipal setting and has done literally the crafting of ordinances, the crafting of laws for a city, for a community, to now take it as just the tiniest little stretch, to take it and go to the state legislature and do the same thing there and to say, well, some things make sense legally speaking and some don't. I think this is one of the main ways that it will help both my community, our community, as well as the legislature and the people of the state of Michigan as a whole, to be able to not make those silly mistakes that unfortunately we've been making so far.

Jamie Flanagan: 6:08

Money makes the world go round.

Ren Nushaj: 6:10

Yes.

Jamie Flanagan: 6:10

Right. So we're going to get the you know enacting laws and setting things up, but you've got to fund these things. Absolutely Right, absolutely so. And the country's in flux, yes, and everybody's like, oh, the sky is falling. You know, I mean on a federal level, at the top of the pops. I mean, they're only in there for four years, so I mean all right. So things ebb and flow, but right now federal funding is in question. Sure, how is that going to impact the state? How do you plan for something like that? You know state funding, with or without federal funding. And what do you see happening as far as you know, federal funding and making things happen in Michigan and Oakland County with the money?

Ren Nushaj: 6:54

It goes without saying that this is going to be an issue going forward, and it's going to be an issue that the current senator and the incoming senator in 2026, this race obviously will take place in 2026. August will be the primary and then the general election will be in November, but it will be an issue and you're absolutely right to call it out. And how do we solve it? Well, there's ideas out there and people are basically attempting to give their own definition to the solution, and I'll tell you one that I heard, and then I'll tell you the one that.

Ren Nushaj: 7:26

I espouse, just a few days ago, sharon McDonald, our state representative in the city of Troy, in my district one of the cities in the district as well as State Senator Stephanie Ching, senator Mallory McMorrow from Royal Oak State, rep Natalie Price, they all got together and they were having a town hall to address all these obviously supremely valid concerns that all of us have with respect to funding and how this is going to play out for the state and for our community. And you know there's a lot of ideas. The ideas, I think, all center around the notion of ultimately break down and center around the notion of how are we going to fund the things that now we're going to be deprived from from the federal government? And the answer, in many ways, was the following Well, we're going to have to prioritize. We're going to have to prioritize to be able to say what is truly important and what is perhaps secondary in nature and where we should perhaps take away. And that analysis followed right from all of them and it's a valid analysis and analysis from individuals who are steeped in, obviously, both the leadership and the politics of the question.

Ren Nushaj: 8:43

I come from a slightly different and maybe more optimistic, but a slightly different perspective, I think we have to fight with respect to funding. We have to fight to keep it, and perhaps that comes from the fact from my background as an attorney, I get to you know I quarrel every day. That's all I do. I'm engaged in litigation all day, every day, and it does not necessarily phase me, and that's not. I'm engaged in litigation all day, every day, and it does not necessarily faze me, and that's not to say that I'm negative about it, but it doesn't faze me.

Ren Nushaj: 9:08

And I think you have to fight for the things you believe in Passion, passion, absolutely. And I think if we want nice things, good things, and not because this is the first world and we want nice things, but because we deserve them, because our taxes pay for them, these are the funds that the federal government has now decided to keep for itself, are our taxpayer dollars at work. We have to fight for them. We have to engage in litigation, as attorneys are throughout the country, but the state, senate and the legislature as a whole has a unique responsibility in that regard, not just to simply say, well, this funding is drying up and we're just going to take away nice things from you, but rather to come up with solutions that say we're going to fight for that funding because we deserve it. It's our taxpayer dollars and we should keep it, retain it and utilize it for the benefit of our people. I think that's the perspective that I come from, based on my background. Do states have powers to?

Jamie Flanagan: 10:05

fight the federal government for things that should be coming our way.

Ren Nushaj: 10:09

More so than powers. They have an obligation. Yes, at the end of the day, people like myself, in order to get elected, at one point or another, they meet with someone like you, with members of our community, and what do they say? I understand what the issues are in the community, right, I can name the problems because I'm one of you. And then what do they follow up with? And, by the way, if you vote for me, I will resolve those issues on your behalf. I will fight for you. Good, I believe in that too. That means that if you say that and if you ask for the vote, you have to follow up.

Ren Nushaj: 10:44

Everybody can identify the issues. The question is what are you going to do? And what in your background informs us to know that what you bring to the table will be solutions to the problems that we can all name? Right, and our politicians? I'm for it. Well, it's easy enough to throw down on politicians. Perhaps it's a favorite national sport, right, but for good reason, I think, because for the most part, they let us down. And they let us down because these are important problems, complex problems, and we attempt all too often in the political stage to give quick and simple solutions to what are otherwise complex problems, and I am of the opinion that we perhaps shouldn't. We should slow down and just simply fight for the things that we need and we deserve.

Jamie Flanagan: 11:32

Frankly, so it's a complex problem because we're living in a very complex world, absolutely, and there were simpler times. I think we are, you know it. It there were simpler times, I think we are, it's, it's, it's, you know, the, the, the, the struggles for kids and challenges in education and and and challenges for you know, people trying to to live in this country one way or another. It's a very complex world we're living in. Where do you see Michigan right now? Where are we going? Where is Michigan right now?

Ren Nushaj: 12:13

It is interesting Michigan, we're lucky, we're fortunate, we have a beautiful state, we have amazing people all of us we're lucky and we should count our lucky stars day in and day out. Few places around the country, around the world, that you can come across and have the experiences that we have day in and day out, and we have to protect that. We have to do much better than we've been doing of late. There's a lot of issues at the same time, of course, and the issues are manifold, and I couldn't agree more with you. The problems that we face are complex and, by definition, the solutions that we have to provide to these problems are complex as well, but they're man-made problems and we can fix them at the same time. This is not rocket science and some, at the end of the day, I am of the opinion that you know and this was going to feel as if it's a word from like the 80s but it remains true that the economy is continues to be a concern and an issue for the country, but also for Michigan and our community, and I think focusing on economy and the way I think of it is the issues of the economy. Every generation, every day, every year, they raise their head and various aspects come to fruition, come to the fore and display themselves. And I think, when I think of the current moment that we're in in Michigan and beyond, I think in terms of affordability. For too long, but now in particular, things have become less and less affordable by all strata of society in this great state of ours. I don't care whether you're just downright poor, I don't care if you're middle class, I don't care if you're upper downright poor, I don't care if you're middle class, I don't care if you're upper middle class. You are currently struggling. Your dollars are not stretching the way that they should. They haven't. And to talk about the complexity of it, it's not because employers are simply not paying as much as they should, which is, of course, there's an issue there. But above and beyond that and I'll bring it to the state senate seat above and beyond that, the senate and the legislature in this great state, some time ago, they decided that they were no longer going to do revenue sharing the way they should have.

Ren Nushaj: 14:23

Municipalities for the sheer joy of us parking our homes in the cities that we live in, collect thousands of dollars from us every year, right, and then they take those dollars and they usually give them to the state, which then distributes it. Well, the state, some time ago, decided that the distribution wasn't going to. You know, it was a little too much of a hassle. They wanted to keep more and give less. And what happens as a result? For the last 20, 30 years, our dollars, our taxpayer dollars, have been buying less and less and the state has been keeping more and more. And so now the things that the services that the municipalities, the cities that we live in were providing up until yesterday, they're no longer providing, and it shows itself in every aspect of it. If you want a library now, god forbid. We have to raise your taxes, you have to have a ballot initiative, and that's true in like three or four of the communities that I mentioned in this district and and the libraries are important.

Jamie Flanagan: 15:16

Every time it comes up on my I'm, I'm voting for it because you know being and you know I'm a teacher. I teach high school and, uh, but I'm an entrepreneur, um, you know, I paid my way through college, you know, with a dj company, um, and I still dj available but, uh, but, uh, you know. But I'm an entrepreneur and I have a podcast studio and.

Jamie Flanagan: 15:38

I help people launch podcasts and I coach people doing things like that and just have that entrepreneurial spirit. These things are important to me. And getting the funding for the education on the local level and the state level and the federal level it's all got to work congruently. And then there's the whole thing. Right, I mentioned, it's a complex political climate we're living in, right, and then there's all this across the aisle, but then there's across federal to state and then there's across from federal to state and then there's cross from state to to local. Uh, you have a unique perspective because you have experience, uh, with the local. Yes, um, and you want to move into the state. So what coming in from that? What are you going to bring to the state coming from, uh, being involved in in local politics? What are you going to bring for that?

Ren Nushaj: 16:32

Absolutely Well at the end of the end, that's such an astute way of looking at it and it is congruent. And we are obviously living in an interdependent, interconnected society at all levels, certainly when it comes to the local, the state and the federal. And first of all, as a matter of background, I bring experiences that are broad but yet deep. For example, among others, many, many moons ago I started my first internship was in Washington DC, interning for Senator Carl Levin right, and so it gives you an appreciation for all manner of legislation and issues and topics and how they're addressed at various levels. But to get to your question, I think the experience that one brings, working with the city, with the municipalities, as I do day in and day out, is important and interesting Because at the end of the day, we live in the cities and it's the local government that's the closest to all our citizens, to all our members of our community, and it's the bread and butter issues and there's no tint of red versus blue versus whatever.

Ren Nushaj: 17:38

It's all about accomplishing taking care of the needs of those nearest to you and if you don't mind you, they're so close they'll come tell you that you're not taking care of those needs, and I think I love that about our municipalities.

Ren Nushaj: 17:52

I think that understanding that background, that experience that I have day in and day out, is going to work wonders, and I'll give you the specific and this may be a minor issue, but it is an important issue in the local setting, in our cities. If you ever have a question about anything how government is being run by your elected representatives all you have to do is send in the Freedom of Information Act request and you will have the information right away, within five days as a matter of fact, and that does not exist at the state level. It is absurd that we should be two adults talking about this today, in 2025, and our government at the state level is a mystery to the two of us people who are actually interested that's not how, and might I remind us last year or the year before, we don't know, it was last year.

Ren Nushaj: 18:44

Last year, the nobel prize in economics went to a couple of people that said democratic actions, right in any setting, lead to superb economic outcomes. And the alternative is true as well. And democracy has to be in the daylight. We have to know what's happening. That's the basis of democracy. The alternative is true as well. If you don't, if you want government to operate in the dark, you are not going to have superb economic outcomes. And that's, I think that's, the easiest thing. And if I have, if you were ever asked what is the one thing that you're going to do? Day one? Right, and there's going to be the important things, which is focusing on the economy, but there's going to be also the easy thing, which is focus on the Freedom of Information Act. Make sure that the government of the people of this great state is and remains democratic and everything is happening in openness I just and that's the other thing, it's like you know, red, blue, democrat, republican.

Jamie Flanagan: 19:43

I just, you know, I hired you I voted for you and I gave you a job, get the job done.

Ren Nushaj: 19:48

Yes, that, that's, that's my, that's my I couldn't agree more get the job done and that's, and that's my hope.

Jamie Flanagan: 19:55

For politicians, it's like just get the job done. We're going to talk more and we're going to do a little rapid fire thing here and these are some topics. We're going to go a little deeper. We're going to have more conversations. You're not off the hot seat yet but right now.

Jamie Flanagan: 20:09

All right. So green, red light, green light, yellow light, green. You think we're on the right track. Yellow not our highest priority issue. Not our highest priority issue, Uh and, and we're going to do good work here. Red this is an issue that needs to be addressed immediately. So education green, yellow, red.

Ren Nushaj: 20:31

And again it's so. There's explanations to be had. Are you talking Wayne County? Are you talking?

Jamie Flanagan: 20:37

Oklahoma County. Are you talking the state as a whole? It's tough, but we're talking Michigan, so you're going to be a Michigan representative. So Michigan education green, yellow, red, Yellow.

Ren Nushaj: 20:47

I think it requires you know the budget that the governor and the Senate proposed. The Democratic-run Senate proposed would increase funding to about $10,000 per student right and in many ways it's historic and wonderful. But of course it will not happen for so long as the statehouse hasn't even taken up the issue of the budget and they're beyond all their timelines. And that's why I would say if we had adopted it the way that we should have on time, I would have given it a solid green. At least we're in the right direction.

Jamie Flanagan: 21:20

We're in the right direction. We're going to go all right fix the dang roads right Infrastructure green yellow right direction.

Ren Nushaj: 21:27

We're gonna go all right fix the dang roads, right, infrastructure.

Ren Nushaj: 21:28

Green, yellow, red, red, all right absolutely, even though we're doing a lot, and infrastructure is not just the, the dang not just the roads, but it's uh, there's a, there's a lot of water everything underneath that road, and then yeah and I come from a community that is in the red by hundreds of millions of dollars and it's and out of its own doing, and yet they're being asked to fix the issues on their own, and that air traffic because we got them flying cars coming right around the corner.

Ren Nushaj: 21:52

It's uh we're flying airplanes with doors that fall off the sky.

Jamie Flanagan: 21:57

I mean electric flying cars, all right. Uh, health care in michigan as a whole green, yellow, red, red all right, that health care is gonna need some attention.

Ren Nushaj: 22:06

We're going to get that. That's going to be a whole 20 minutes Local economies.

Jamie Flanagan: 22:13

And so local economy for your district. And then, how is the local economy in your District 9? And then, what do you think? Local economies across the state.

Ren Nushaj: 22:23

Yellow with respect to the district, I think Obviously it's Oakland County for the most part and a portion of Macomb County.

Ren Nushaj: 22:35

And they can vary, in economic outcomes specifically, but nonetheless there's a lot of good happening but at the same time there's just a lot of you know. There's a lot of need for focused attention on the needs of the members of our community, on the needs of our cities and the needs of our all the organizations that serve our community. And, and that's why I think you know I vacillate yellow, between yellow and red, but yellow give it a solid yellow.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:04

It makes it crazy that you know people. They want you to have your own retirement, they want you to do your own funding and they make it more difficult for entrepreneurs to entrepreneur. It's funny, you mentioned that.

Ren Nushaj: 23:20

I think that is a simple and honest truth as an attorney.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:24

it's your own practice. You're an entrepreneur, Absolutely. I mean, you're a fancy pants lawyer entrepreneur, but you're an entrepreneur One tries yes, no, absolutely, but I think that's the simple truth.

Ren Nushaj: 23:34

The shortcomings of government affect all of us, at every level of government, every state of government. The shortcomings affect all of us and I believe the government should be a force for good and is meant to help the lives of all of us. And I also, and to further that statement, I would say that I think that if someone believes the antithesis the government shouldn't exist, should be smaller, these notions that we have out there, we should have smaller government. I believe that that's a disqualifying thought. For this reason and this reason alone, well, for this analysis and analysis alone, which is we're a superpower, we're a superpower, we're a sole superpower. We have 800 bases around the country, we're the greatest economy known to mankind and somehow we have people telling us that we should have small government, telling us that we should have small government. No, we should have appropriately sized government with no bureaucracy, that lives and breathes every day to help the people of the great state of Michigan and beyond. And these people who serve in government, they're not beamed out from outer space.

Jamie Flanagan: 24:37

They're.

Ren Nushaj: 24:37

Americans like you and I, bleeding red, white and blue every day.

Jamie Flanagan: 24:39

Okay, Some days I give you that Yellow, green, red public safety?

Ren Nushaj: 24:50

We're green there and we need to do better.

Jamie Flanagan: 24:52

But again, it's changes by community, but in our community, absolutely.

Ren Nushaj: 24:55

What about our veterans? I fear we're sliding into red. Yellow, solid yellow, sliding into red. Yes, yes, we need to do a lot more. People have given so much Everything, they're ready to give their last ounce of blood.

Jamie Flanagan: 25:10

In wartime, you know, and war is so obtuse now, I mean, I think we've been at war since Vietnam is ended.

Ren Nushaj: 25:18

Absolutely, you know between Cold War and this and that.

Jamie Flanagan: 25:21

I don't think we've been really genuinely out of war since. So all veterans I believe are war veterans.

Ren Nushaj: 25:28

Absolutely, and I think they deserve and require our absolute attention to every detail of their lives and their needs.

Jamie Flanagan: 25:38

That'll be a whole thing. And again, these are some topics we're going to get into, because all of these things need attention or fostering. If they fell into the green right now, all right, here we go. A couple of fun ones here. What's your favorite Michigan vacation spot?

Ren Nushaj: 25:55

Oof, I have to go with Suggatuck Michigan.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:03

Traverse City is a go-to place.

Ren Nushaj: 26:05

Are you a hotel guy or are you a camping guy? So in Sagatuck, in Traverse City? No, we do. We've done both over the years, and now I'm 45. I'm sliding into the hotel.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:16

You're a baby, I'm sliding into hotels a lot more Traverse Sagatuck love that area love everything about it Traverse city. Love it.

Ren Nushaj: 26:26

I mean we have good friends over there that we go and we can, we do the whole thing.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:30

I'm going to go sleep on the ground at Interlochen in about two, two or three weeks. There's a state, there's a state camp in. Interlochen it's, it's, it's amazing, that's my favorite.

Ren Nushaj: 26:40

So the state camp in Sagatuck. So there's a couple of beaches there, but Oval Beach it's idyllic. Oval Beach, Bekatawa, that area, it's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable, we're fortunate. Actually, I should change my answer just so that less people go there.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:59

Alright, your favorite flavor of better-made potato chips.

Ren Nushaj: 27:03

I am about as vanilla as they come. Ah, okay, to be perfectly honest with you, but I'm also like, and hopefully your camera does not add those.

Jamie Flanagan: 27:13

Yeah, yeah, how many cameras are on me?

Ren Nushaj: 27:14

Yeah precisely Because it's not like I would ever say no to any flavor. And they have that barbecue one. Ah, but we're not there, you go.

Jamie Flanagan: 27:24

Yeah, I'm barbecue, but but we're not there. You go uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm barbecue, but you know, in the summertime, uh, the salt and vinegar ones, yes, uh, that that's my wife got those in canada. I was getting those in canada and that's that got me hooked on. Anyway, all right, so, uh, can verner's? Last question yes, can verner's be used as a medical remedy?

Ren Nushaj: 27:42

absolutely, anybody that says the contrary, should you know, we should file charges.

Jamie Flanagan: 27:47

Tar and feather and whatever. Love it. All right, Ren, People over politics. We're going to keep on this. We're going to talk to you some more. We're going to dive deeper into education and healthcare and our veterans. We're going to talk more about those topics because I think each one of those deserves a little deeper focus each time. But thanks for spending some time. People want to know about you, your platforms, your campaigns. Is there a one-stop shop on the interweb someplace?

Ren Nushaj: 28:16

Yes, ren4misenetcom. And then, of course, we're on all social media. We're going to be on Facebook.

Jamie Flanagan: 28:23

Instagram the whole nine. So spell the name so people can find it.

Ren Nushaj: 28:25

Sure, yeah, we're going to be on Facebook Instagram the whole nine, so spell the name so people can find it Ren R-E-N for number four M-I-Senatecom.

Jamie Flanagan: 28:31

Okay, so put that in the Google machine and find that, ren, thank you. Thank you so much.

Ren Nushaj: 28:37

It was just such a pleasure again.